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Thursday, November 30

Gapers Block

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BM / July 1, 2008 5:51 PM

What's next? Removing the freedom of religion provisions because people kill each other over religion?

p / July 1, 2008 6:21 PM

If that's the one about not coveting something- I'm for it.

christine / July 1, 2008 7:08 PM

Sure, I'd vote for that. But there'd be a lot of angry people with guns...

Dubi / July 1, 2008 7:47 PM

I'd like to suggest this ridiculous and perverse compromise. What if the city could get keep its gun laws under a provision in the P.A.T.R.I.O.T act?

GWB / July 1, 2008 8:56 PM

Dump the entire Constitution! Rewrite the rules to control the people better. Anyway, rights are merely privileges that those with power grant.

snuh / July 1, 2008 10:13 PM

so this is really what it's come to? taking away more of our liberties in the name of liberty?

fluffy / July 1, 2008 10:24 PM

America and Americans' needs change. I don't think all citizens should have the right to possess or use weapons. I'm not sure it should be repealled but it should be amended.

Chris / July 1, 2008 10:38 PM

In all honesty, why would I need to own a gun? Maybe to go hunting? I have no need for an Ak-47 or a 9mm unless my intention is to kill someone. I really see no other reason for owning a gun. Some of you might say you need it for self defense - but the only reason you need a gun for self defense is because other dangerous people
are allowed to own guns.

Carl / July 1, 2008 10:50 PM

We should adopt the system where you can own a gun but you have to keep it at an approved storage facility at the hunting ground.

The 2nd could not possibly be more outdated.

Those who argue that their rights are being taken away need to understand that in any society certain freedoms are restricted to ensure greater freedoms for the whole. Removing the lesser freedom of bearing arms allows for the greater freedom of life or, at least, life without fear.

maardvark / July 1, 2008 11:19 PM

I think the second amendment should be amended, not repealed. Something like, "(1) A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of the state, the right to bear arms as part of service in such militia shall not be infringed. (2) The right to bear arms reasonably necessary to the defense of self or property shall not be abolished. (3) Congress and the States shall have the power to pass such regulations as are necessary to ensure that the rights enumerated in (1) and (2) are not incompatible with public safety and security.

Greg / July 2, 2008 7:54 AM

No. but if the 2nd amendment is intended to protect the citizenry from the tyranny of the state, then I want a tank, bioweapons, and a nuke.

Pedro / July 2, 2008 8:58 AM

Absolutely not.
If you don't feel the need to own a gun, then don't, but don't expect to extend your judgement to someone else's situation.

Its interesting to see how similar this argument is to abortion rights, except that the sides are switched, with conservatives looking to extend their judgement on others.

madachode / July 2, 2008 9:00 AM

2nd amendment is there for a reason, every law abiding citizen in this country has the right to protect oneself and family. Daley cannot figure out why people still have guns in the city, he has to blame something for it so why not the constitution of the United States. Watch him carefully when he rants and raves about it then just for giggles he and Stroger will raise taxes again.

Spence / July 2, 2008 9:05 AM

Repeal-no, amend-yes. Everyone should be allowed to own one single-shot musket and powder horn.

Gaigen / July 2, 2008 9:22 AM

Every legal gun owner should be required to spend at least two weekends a month training to maintain the "well-regulated militia" that is mentioned in their oft-quoted second amendment. Running, rolling in the dirt, climbing shit, push-ups, the works. Sounds well-regulated to me.

Anyone caught with a gun illegally is immediately sent to Iraq

jen / July 2, 2008 9:48 AM

i'm with Spence - amended to say we can all own rifles. no automatic weapons.

though i do like Gaigen's plan...

Unfocused Me / July 2, 2008 10:03 AM

Sure, because the gun ban we have now has eliminated gun crimes, and the recent Supreme Court ruling puts that all at risk. Imagine if we had Dallas's murder rate instead (15 per 100K vs. 16.4 per 100K in Chicago).

I've never owned a handgun, but the idea that banning them makes us safer is ludicrous.

corey / July 2, 2008 10:03 AM

I don't like guns but I don't like taking away amendments either. If you repeal one, where does it end?

Spook / July 2, 2008 10:09 AM

Does any one else think it a bit odd that we place such a exalted premium
On a 200 year old plus document written by only white men?

I'm saying toss it all, but I think a massive revesion is more than called for

Pedro / July 2, 2008 10:09 AM

Jen, you can't own automatic weapons as it is.

...and a rifle is a pretty broad definition that would include what people usually equate with an automatic.

sb / July 2, 2008 10:11 AM

do that and the next thing you know the queen of england is in your fridge finishing off the last of the vitamin water.

i like the part in the constitution where it says the gov won't house soldiers in private homes. i like it because that promise never goes out of style. never.

Brantley Harris / July 2, 2008 10:25 AM

CPR just did a piece on how absolutely easy it is for teens in schools to buy handguns. Although it doesn't entirely discredit the ban, it certainly points to great ineffectiveness.

Spence / July 2, 2008 10:28 AM

Banning handguns won't make us safer? If you had a nationwide ban, of course it would make us safer. How would it not? Handguns are more dangerous than other firearms for obvious reasons: easily concealable, inaccurate, and can pop-off a dozen rounds in less than a dozen seconds. At least twice a month I hear of someone getting killed from a stray round in Chicago.

jen / July 2, 2008 10:30 AM

Pedro - O RLY?

mike / July 2, 2008 10:54 AM

I think we should repeal career politicians in Illinois by instituting term limits. I don't think the 2nd Amendment should be repealed but I do think that gun manufacturers know that X% of what they produce ends up in the hands of criminals and they don't care. They also manufacture cheap guns that they know gangbangers use as execution/throwaway weapons ( We need to take more creative steps to eliminate straw purchasing. We also need to look at the way we criminalize drugs and lock people up in this country (most of whom are released back into society worse off and jobless). And then there's education. These are all very complex social issues. In Illinois, we can't even get a budget downstate. And the citizens draw a line and argue over an Amendment that, yea or nea, has bery little to do with the 12,000 or so murders that occur in the U.S.

grapes / July 2, 2008 11:23 AM

repealing the 2nd amendment is for pussy gangbangers. let's repeal the 4th amendment! no criminal will escape the gubment's sites and we'll all be safer!

Josh / July 2, 2008 11:31 AM

Examine rates of all violent crimes in various American cities, and examine rates of all gun-related crimes in various American cities. Then, examine restrictions on gun ownership in these same cities. Facts repeatedly prove that gun-control doesn't work.

Do some homework, and stop theorizing with emotions.

flange / July 2, 2008 11:34 AM

we can't take away the right to own arms, unfortunately, but i think we should do away with everything over a small revolver and with concealed carry. you can have a gun on your person for protection but it has to be on a chain around your neck and visible at all times.

(then when these morons start getting coldcocked and waking up with their guns stolen, we'll know how well guns serve as protection.)

Andrew John / July 2, 2008 11:45 AM

Once again Daley is proving himself to be one of the worst leaders this city has ever known. He is an ego-maniac whose solution to every situation is to either charge the citizens of the city financially, or to restrict our liberties.
Let's let our distaste for his poor judgement and arrogance be known and VOTE HIM OUT next election!!

spence / July 2, 2008 11:49 AM

Gun control doesn't work when you don't have a widespread ban. Do your homework, look at gun crime statistics in other countries with tighter regulation.

Gaigen / July 2, 2008 12:58 PM

WTG spence...

Verbose O'Callahan / July 2, 2008 1:04 PM

Wow. Daley got all of you guys hook, line and sinker.

I’m sure this was the fuel question after what Richie Daley said about the 2nd amendment.

The violence has to do with economics, NOT any amendment or a gun or anything like that.

There is violence because people are POOR!

Daley is passing the buck so he can sleep at night thinking to himself, “it is not ME creating this violence, it is the guns!”.

Mayor Daley! The blood of these innocent victims in our city is on YOUR hands. NOT the gun makers or the Constitution or anything else.

If you make guns “illegal”, the people are still POOR!!

What does the 2nd amendment have to do with someone not being able to find a job?!?!

Think people!

You have failed Mayor Daley.

Richie has created a larger and larger gap between the rich folk and the poor folk in the city.

It is on HIS watch that all of this violence happened.
Then Daley wants to stand in front of HIS media and claim “gun owners!” “gun makers!”.

People from lower income areas don't give a fuck about "repealing" or "amending".

Those aren’t even words to people who live in those areas.

So go ahead and continue to analyze this subject with as much bravado as a message board allows…someone has already posted link…someone will post and say how “they work directly with blah blah blah”.

The mayor has every one of you snowed thinking that this violence has anything to do with guns.

Meanwhile, he is sleeping fine at night, making deals with his rich folk and continuing to widen the gap between the rich and poor.

Why is there so much violence? It’s economics, stupid!

Unfocused Me / July 2, 2008 1:07 PM

Spence, how does a lower crime rate in another country refute the argument that gun bans don't work here? If a ban were effective in preventing violent crime, wouldn't you expect *some* benefit from a local ban? Maybe, just maybe, crime rates have causes that are more complicated than the availability of a particular class of weapon.

Ramsin / July 2, 2008 1:17 PM

I don't want to get into the business of repealing anything in the Bill of Rights. Considering that the "right to privacy" used in Roe v. Wade is based on an implied right taken from different elements in the Constitution, its hardly a good idea to go ahead and start repealing actually explicit rights.

Also, as much as I support gun control generally, I also don't think its a good idea to construe the phrase "the right of the people to..." should be taken to mean anything but a right of the people that takes precedence over the rights of the government or the state.

Ramsin / July 2, 2008 1:34 PM

That's why you shouldn't get up from the computer mid-sentence.

Let me try that again:

"Also, as much as I support gun control generally, I also don't think its a good idea to construe the phrase "the right of the people to..." to mean anything but a right of the people that takes precedence over the rights of the state (or government).

Spence / July 2, 2008 2:03 PM

@Unfocused me.

A local gun ban is useless when you can hop on over the city/county line and be in gun shop heaven. It's like putting the liquor in a cabinet above the fridge, all you need is a chair to get it. A federal ban (on handguns, semi-automatics,automatics, etc) would make it about 1000x more difficult for any gang banger, criminal , etc to get to it. Joe Schmo can no longer get that cheap handgun whenever, wherever. Gun bans don't work here simply because they are piecemeal and more of a statement of protest than of action. Make it federal, you'll see a huge decline in gun crime. The data is there to support it.

snuh / July 2, 2008 2:27 PM

only as difficult as it is to get to canada or mexico.

Pedro / July 2, 2008 2:34 PM


Read your own reference - it just backed my point. There is a big difference between automatic and semi-automatic.

What you should be saying is that they ban the "scary looking" guns

Not_another_user_name / July 2, 2008 2:34 PM

I don't know why we can't license guns/owners the way we license cars/drivers. You want a gun? Fine. Go take some classes, pass this test, pay this fee.

Spence / July 2, 2008 2:55 PM


It'd be a lot more expensive and risky to smuggle guns from Canada & Mexico than to go to a gun store 20 miles away. Supply would drop, illegal gun prices would go through the roof putting it out of reach of most people. There will still be gun crime, but nothing like current statistics.

J / July 2, 2008 3:11 PM

For those of you interested in rewriting the whole constitution we can start right here in Illinois with voting yes for the ConCon in November...

Leelah / July 2, 2008 4:39 PM

Someone's just got to massively jack up the price of bullets. Problem solved!

Carrie / July 2, 2008 4:46 PM

Leelah-- I was just going to say-- rubber bullets. that could work, too, right? Either make them expensive or make it so they can't kill, just sting real bad and leave battle wound bruise.

Steven / July 2, 2008 6:48 PM


It keeps the herd thinned.

jen / July 3, 2008 9:25 AM

Leelah - a la the Chris Rock bit where bullets cost $400/each? =)

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